With filmmaking, Irving and I are truly partners. He was a filmmaker before I was. When we got together I had just gotten my degree in poetry writing from San Francisco State. So I was an artist, and I've always felt that that's what I was, from the time that I was a small child. But I didn't know a lot about movies, and I actually didn't know a lot about visual arts. So after I finished with my poetry, I felt that I really needed to do something else with my poetry, which would be visual, like putting it on the wall in some way. I began working in a program at San Francisco State called the Pegasus Program, which was poetry in schools. It involved having kids write to imagery and it was done with big projectors on the walls so the images would be gigantic. That was a way for me to enter into the visual world. And I was such a reader. Readers, although we range far, are also blocked in a lot of ways because we don't look at things. I actually learned to look at things after I got together with Irving.
We began in a funny little way. I would write a poem and he would make a little film about it. And I would write a little poem about the film that he made. We did that back and forth. And at the same time we were falling in love, and that was thirty years ago. When we met, we were actually each married to someone else, and I became a widow, and he eventually was divorced, and we got together.
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